Stage I update question!!

[B-Man]

Just finished the Stage I update today on the RoadGlide. My question is with the free flow air cleaner(screamin eagle), update to the ECM (richer A/F ratio) and the V&H slip-on what are the possible HP # and TQ # I may have gained! B.

[DevilDog]

Brian,

On my 08 I did a stage 1 SE Air Cleaner / Screaming Eagle Super Tuner / Rinehart Tru-duals. I had mine tuned on the dyno as the SEST has the ability to totally change just about every variable in your ECU. And to really do it right it needs to be done by a trained Tech on the dyno. I talked to the tech that was going to tune my bike and told him that I wanted the AFR to be around 13:1 and as much torque as low on the rpm range as he could get it. Since mine is a heavy ass Sofa Glide, and I load it like a U-Haul as Dave63 says, it would benefit having torque readily available than HP. The net results were 88HP/100TQ with a 13:1 AFR. The difference in the bike was night and day and the tech said that he could tune more HP on the upper end but torque would suffer. Now in your case are you talking a fuel management system or the factory download when you say " update to ECM "

[B-Man]

The service manager said that they would increase the A/F ratio to what it would be for a 103cu-in or a 110! He thought that would be about a 13:1 mix! Jus a factory download. He won't recommend Dynoing it til I have 2000 miles on it! Seems like after they finished yesterday, it really runs well and with alot more power both from a torque standpoint and HP also!

[Crocodile56]

Sometimes you feel like Horse Power, sometimes you feel like torque! I'd rather have the torque!

[DevilDog]

Well the AFR from the factory to be in line with GUBERMENT EPA standards is going to be in the range of 14.7:1 no matter what engine size 96/103/110. So I don't understand his statement that factory 103 and 110 motors are running 13:1, cause they could not pass EPA if they were. I agree with the not to Dyno until you have some break in miles on the bike. Just a recommendation, and you can take it for what its worth. If you decide to dyno, bring it in with fresh oil and fuel. Don't know if your tech discussed what will be done, if its done correctly it will take a bunch of pulls on the dyno to get it dialed in. Mine was on the dyno just about all day, so make sure you have plenty of fuel. I would question the tech if he only makes a couple of pulls and claims that its dyno-tuned. Dyno'd is making 2-3 pulls and printing out a dyno sheet with HP/TQ numbers. Dyno-Tuned is making a pull for a baseline, make an adjustment, pull to check, make adjustment, pull to check.. ETC.. you get the point.

Sometimes you feel like Horse Power, sometimes you feel like torque! I'd rather have the torque!

Especially if you are on a heavy ass bagger......

[vlade]

I'm sufferin under the impression that ot much is gonna happen to your AFR till you get an External tuner. Just a new ECM boot aint gonna get it

[DevilDog]

I'm sufferin under the impression that ot much is gonna happen to your AFR till you get an External tuner. Just a new ECM boot aint gonna get it

That is correct vlade. the factory download for the SE Stage 1 still has to adhere to EPA standards which would not bring it anywhere close to 13:1. The Super Tuner will allow for infinite adjustments to the air/fuel ratio, ignition timing, rev-limiter, acellerator pump feature, engine decel enleanment to eliminate exhaust popping, etc.
Now that is why you see the " OFF ROAD USE ONLY " on most of the stuff that can change your motor to operate outside the EPA boundary or should I say BONDAGE.... And the SEST has a basemap or canned fuel table that is just that a basemap. Some say that the basemap is ok to run, but to me that is a waste of money. The ONLY way to tell if you are running PROPER is to use an exhaust gas analyzer and air/fuel ratio meter...ON a DYNO.....this will show, at EVERY RPM, what a/f ratio makes the most power.

[vlade]

So if we right the servicemangr is BS'n

[Rainrider]

I know who I'd believe!

[B-Man]

thanks for the info!! Headin to the Dealer later on and will talk with the Master Tech who does the Dynos and see what he says!! I thought the Service manager might be BS'n me!!!!

[Tick]

I had the stage 1 uploaded on my Heritage about a week ago with the SE air filter and Rush 2.0 slip ons. I don't know the HP or the torque numbers, but it made a world of difference in how it runs.

[Crocodile56]

Can't wait to hear how it turned out!

[B-Man]

Spoke to the HD tech that worked on my RoadGlide......left the service manager alone as I have concerns about him! He said the stage I update would get me approximately 6 HP and approx 8 lbs of torque! He told me the AF ratio was approx 14.1/1 and NOT 13 as quoted by the service manager! I asked him about a Dyno at 2000 miles and he said on a stock 96cuin, the $250 spent on a dyno would maybe yield 2-3HP and I would have to decide if the money spent would be worth the HP gain in that case! However, if cams, heads and pistons changed to increase cu-in then a dyno would be a necessity! I felt much more comfortable with the stage I after speaking with him.

[DevilDog]

Spoke to the HD tech that worked on my RoadGlide......left the service manager alone as I have concerns about him! He said the stage I update would get me approximately 6 HP and approx 8 lbs of torque! He told me the AF ratio was approx 14.1/1 and NOT 13 as quoted by the service manager! I asked him about a Dyno at 2000 miles and he said on a stock 96cuin, the $250 spent on a dyno would maybe yield 2-3HP and I would have to decide if the money spent would be worth the HP gain in that case! However, if cams, heads and pistons changed to increase cu-in then a dyno would be a necessity! I felt much more comfortable with the stage I after speaking with him.

Good that you got to speak to the Tech and he cleared matters up. Now if you go with a SERT or SEST a dyno is pretty much a must unless you trust the canned maps, and it will net a lot more than 2-3 HP. And when you do the cams/heads/pistons this is when the dyno tune is the bang for buck winner. Enjoy man, mine was a different bike when I did the stage 1.

Oh and I agree with your tech... and like I stated before the reason I went with a fuel management system at this point was that I wanted the AFR to 13:1 and I plan on adding cams and other goodies and hopefully building it to a 103 sometime down the road.

[B-Man]

I'm glad I pinned him down with the questions!!! In the future I'd like to build a 103cuin!! more power!!!!!!(grunting!)